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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0000169||VCMI||AI - Adventure Map||public||2009-10-15 22:56||2022-04-12 10:47|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version||0.98g|
|Summary||0000169: The visiting hero does not collect the best troops from garrison to fill in his empty army slots when the town is under siege.|
|Description||0.73c#37 - The visiting hero does not collect the best troops from garrison to fill in his empty army slots when the town is under siege.|
|Additional Information||To reproduce, load the map attached to 0000146, R-click on Inferno town (to see all troops in Garrison), then attack it. Only the troops of the visiting hero will defend against the siege. Forum report: http://forum.vcmi.eu/viewtopic.php?p=3682#3682 [^]|
|Tags||No tags attached.|
|Attached Files|| fizmig_merge_291_1.jpg [^] (53,317 bytes) 2016-02-19 11:58
fizmig_merge_291_2.jpg [^] (62,568 bytes) 2016-02-19 11:58
fizmig_merge_291_3.jpg [^] (64,665 bytes) 2016-02-19 11:58
fizmig_merge_291_4.jpg [^] (70,641 bytes) 2016-02-19 11:59
SXX_Siege_army_merging_v1.h3m [^] (2,729 bytes) 2016-02-19 12:31
|Propose to change severity. It could be tweak if hero does collect any of troops for free slots but it isn't. Problem with choosing which creatures/slot are the best could be tweak. But as I know troop are chosen at random. So if you know that siege is possible you should leave the best troops in your hero.|
edited on: 2012-03-16 22:46
I'm pretty sure the troops are not chosen at random, I just don't remember now what was the criterion used: creature rank or stack strength.
EDIT: The criterion is the most logic one - stack strength. I did a very short test, giving AI the chance to pick between 1 Royal Griffin and a couple of Pikemen, and it chose the Royal Griffin. But when I increased the stack of Pikemen to 10, it chose the Pikemen.
|Is that supposed to apply for player attacked by AI as well?|
Yes. To reproduce, make the purple player in the 'VCMI Tests' map Human, start the map as Purple in WoG and hit End Turn.
Not collecting the troops could have some strategic value in some rare situations (can't think of many), but most of the time would just be annoying, because you didn't micro-manage enough before hitting End Turn. So I wouldn't bother coding that, or if you do, should be a mod-option, as it wouldn't be like OH3.
It may be resolved with showing garrison window to move units manually (AI should make some decision but it's up to AI writers what to choose).
I think it's better resolve than oryginal concept
edited on: 2012-03-16 23:00
I think the original concept is not that bad either, as long as we know what criteria exactly H3 used for ranking stack strengths. We would actually need that for coding the AI.
As for the human player, the Garrison interface may be a nice addition. However (unless the hero has Enhanced WoG Tactics perhaps), the player should not be allowed any creature management, except the move from Garrison to his army. So he should not be allowed to move weaker creatures to the Garrison to make place for stronger, or to even dismiss creatures (for whatever tactical reason), as that breaks the balance of the original game (particularly exploitable in multiplayer): other human players, and perhaps even an advanced AI, should be able to asses what's waiting them if they attack, based on the army the hero at the gate already has, and not have the surprise that a slot of a pikeman was replaced by a dragon.
I think all moving up/down, merging, splitting should be allowed (but not buying, upgrading etc). the arrange troops garrison dialog should show before battle start (so before the player know what attacked him).
AI wouldn't be a problem too if town with hero is threated as single object, and summary threat will be counted.
PS: some mods include creatures which upgrades for free and has circular upgrades, so maybe allow any change which do not cost resources ? (including upgrades which are free). Also we can make changes (and it's parts) optional.
edited on: 2013-05-31 08:02
There is a related behavior I see now (0.92c): after defeating the visiting hero, the town is not flagged (and rest of garrisoned creatures vanished), but we have to fight another siege against those creatures. I'm not sure if it was there before or a new behavior.
In OH3, if no hero garrisoned, the creatures not used to fill the ranks of the visiting hero were vanishing. If there was a hero garrisoned, then no creature was used to fill in the ranks of the visiting hero, but then also attacking the visiting hero did not open a siege, but a normal battle screen.
I kinda like the extra challenge (and I wouldn't mind if we got two sieges also when there's a hero in garrison as well), but it's not like OH3. I guess it could be an option associated with one of those WoG scripts that increase difficulty (like 'karmic battles').
Found full description (but in Russian) on how this feature should work. Will translate later.
1.Когда в гарнизоне и в гостях есть герои - их армии не объединяются никогда.
2.В гарнизоне героя нет, а в гостях - есть:
2.1.Если суммарно в армии гарнизона и в армии героя не более 7 типов существ, то армии объединяются под руководством героя.
2.2.Если суммарно более 7 типов существ, то армии объединяются - в объединённой армии отсутствуют самые "слабые" отряды (видимо по AI values). В случае победы атакующего, он получает город. В случае победы защитника - "пропавшие" существа остаются в армии гарнизона, а участвовавшие в битве остаются в армии героя.
2.3.Если в гарнизоне один тип существ разделён на несколько отрядов, но всего у гостя и в гарнизоне не более 7 типов существ - армии объединяются (разделённые отряды сливаются в один).
2.4.Если в гарнизоне один тип существ разделён на несколько отрядов, и суммарно у гостя и в гарнизоне более 7 типов существ, то армии объединяются - разделённые отряды сливаются в один, в объединённой армии отсутствуют "самые" слабые отряды.
2.5.Если у героя один тип существ разделён на несколько отрядов, то армии объединяются - в объединённой армии отсутствуют самые "слабые" отряды (разделённые отряды НЕ сливаются в один).
|Really wish we can unify all merging code (e.g 0002344) so the same code used everywhere, but with different rules. Would be also cool to avoid issue that H3 has (when ally hero get creatures he didn't own after battle ended).|
So my current plan is to implement merging multiple merge options for VCMI:
- No merging. So it's as it's works now.
- H3 merging according to FizMiG (efficiently what Ivan posted) and tested by custom map.
- VCMI advanced merging. We'll do it as in H3, but will as well always merge stacks of same type so you can get bigger army.
- VCMI full merging. Basically idea is to have option to put more stacks into town garrison than H3 normally allowing.
Also FizMiG is in Russian, but there is illustrations of merging mechanics that don't need translation. I'll implement all 4 cases on my test map that I'll hopefully finish and upload shortly after.
I'll of course test FizMiG description in H3 just to be sure it's right, but so far it's was always explaining H3 behaviour right.
|Map all, also checked FizMiG examples using it and they are totally correct.|
|2009-10-15 22:56||Zamolxis||New Issue|
|2010-05-29 23:44||Zamolxis||Product Version||0.74 => 0.73c|
|2010-07-27 07:46||Boulie||Note Added: 0001189|
|2010-07-27 18:39||Zamolxis||Note Added: 0001198|
|2012-02-27 12:22||Warmonger||Category||Mechanics - Other => AI - Adventure Map|
|2012-03-09 18:17||Warmonger||Note Added: 0002290|
|2012-03-09 19:19||Zamolxis||Note Added: 0002291|
|2012-03-16 11:27||majaczek||Note Added: 0002312|
|2012-03-16 22:46||Zamolxis||Note Edited: 0001198||View Revisions|
|2012-03-16 22:57||Zamolxis||Note Added: 0002313|
|2012-03-16 22:57||Zamolxis||Status||new => feedback|
|2012-03-16 22:59||Zamolxis||Note Edited: 0002313||View Revisions|
|2012-03-16 23:00||Zamolxis||Note Edited: 0002313||View Revisions|
|2012-03-18 18:00||majaczek||Note Added: 0002314|
|2013-05-31 08:00||Zamolxis||Note Added: 0003614|
|2013-05-31 08:00||Zamolxis||Status||feedback => new|
|2013-05-31 08:02||Zamolxis||Note Edited: 0003614||View Revisions|
|2013-08-26 10:51||Ivan||Note Added: 0003896|
|2015-12-24 12:37||SXX||Assigned To||=> SXX|
|2015-12-24 12:37||SXX||Status||new => assigned|
|2015-12-24 12:37||SXX||Relationship added||has duplicate 0002252|
|2015-12-24 19:06||SXX||Relationship added||related to 0002344|
|2015-12-24 19:08||SXX||Note Added: 0006217|
|2016-02-19 11:57||SXX||Note Added: 0006438|
|2016-02-19 11:58||SXX||File Added: fizmig_merge_291_1.jpg|
|2016-02-19 11:58||SXX||File Added: fizmig_merge_291_2.jpg|
|2016-02-19 11:58||SXX||File Added: fizmig_merge_291_3.jpg|
|2016-02-19 11:59||SXX||File Added: fizmig_merge_291_4.jpg|
|2016-02-19 12:01||SXX||Note Added: 0006439|
|2016-02-19 12:31||SXX||File Added: SXX_Siege_army_merging_v1.h3m|
|2016-02-19 12:31||SXX||Note Added: 0006440|
|2016-02-21 19:49||SXX||Note Added: 0006442|
|2016-02-22 01:43||SXX||Relationship added||related to 0002417|
|2016-02-22 17:01||SXX||Status||assigned => resolved|
|2016-02-22 17:01||SXX||Fixed in Version||=> 0.98g|
|2016-02-22 17:01||SXX||Resolution||open => fixed|
|2022-04-12 10:47||Povelitel||Status||resolved => closed|
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