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Notes |
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(0001626)
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Warmonger
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2011-03-07 16:14
(edited on: 2011-03-07 16:16) |
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If you banned all the relics (or artifacts of any specific rarity) on your map, it's the way it was implemented. But shouldn't happen if at least one of a kind is avaliable.
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(0001627)
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Zamolxis
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2011-03-07 18:57
(edited on: 2011-03-07 18:58) |
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I tried the map in H3. I didn't get any grail.
(I know it's a matter of randomness... but I doubt it's just that in this case)
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What happens then?
I didn't try Warriors's Tomb, but see what happens when you place a random artifact on the map when all are banned :P |
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(0001629)
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Zamolxis
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2011-03-07 19:54
(edited on: 2011-03-08 10:00) |
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I see now what you meant, that is that in H3 if all artifacts were banned, Grail was given. And that could be at Warrior's Tomb, or any other locations/objects/events giving random artifacts. I was confused by "it's the way it was implemented", thinking you meant VCMI, but I see you meant H3...
But still, I wonder about H3, because in my MapEditor I cannot disable all artifacts. If I try to disable the last of them, the next one gets auto-selected. Perhaps you meant a combination of MapEditor settings and WoG bans?...
Anyway, that's another story... unrelated to the bug we have here.
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In 0.84d I also found the Grail at the Crypt, but I guess it's related to the same issue. |
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(0001771)
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Warmonger
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2011-05-31 04:18
(edited on: 2011-05-31 04:22) |
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Zam, it can't be fixed better than it is.
If all artifacts of certain rairity are banned, we can either give none (which would still be considered as bug, and original game does not predict such option), or create new art just like this. All I can do is to choose another artifact(s) or force editor / settings to never allow banning artifacts.
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(0001772)
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Zamolxis
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2011-05-31 07:57
(edited on: 2011-05-31 08:00) |
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Maybe I'm still missing something, but these are the facts as I see them after running more tests:
1. It's impossible to ban all artifacts from Map Editor. After you de-select all but one, when you try to de-select the last one left, the next one in the list gets automatically selected (and list restarts from the top, if you try to de-select the last one).
2. If you then de-select all but one artifact from Map Specifications in Editor, and then you place 100 Tombs and 100 Crypts on the map, when you play in H3O, you will get 100 times only that artifact from the Tombs, and a random number of times that artifact again from the Crypts (as sometimes they give only gold). Never the Grail.
3. The only place other than Map Editor where you can ban artifacts (to my knowledge), is the WoG Menu. If you leave only 1 artifact selected in Map Editor, but then you ban it from the WoG Menu, then the game freezes at start while applying the WoG settings.
So to me at least, it looks like NWC clearly coded The Grail with a different attribute, to make sure there's always maximum 1 at any given time to be found on the map (unless structure already built in town from Editor), and that is never as an artifact to be found in Tombs, Crypts or other locations (more than once - as it's the case now in VCMI), but only to be dug out.
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(0001773)
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Warmonger
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2011-05-31 08:04
(edited on: 2011-05-31 08:07) |
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But it's possible to ban all artifacts of certain _rarity_ on the map. In such case, free random artifacts which should have this rarity start to become Bow of Sharpshooter, which makes even less sense than Grail.
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Again, I still don't get it (sorry). If I ban all but Bow of Sharpshooter, then I still get 100 times Bow of Sharpshooter, never the Grail. The Grail is clearly either coded differently than other relic/combo artifacts, or else hardcoded to never show up at any map location which gives artifacts.
If I'm still missing something, give me a clear example (which artifact, which exact settings) of how can I ever reproduce what you're saying, in order to get The Grail from a Tomb in the original H3? |
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Simply ban all relics and place a random relic artifact on the map.
It's easier to spot this way, as map locations may give artifacts of different rarities.
I never said that original game gives Grail. Last time I checked, it gave me Bow of Sharpshooter which neither should pop up. Both are not perfect solution, but some artifact must be given in the end. |
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(0001776)
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Zamolxis
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2011-05-31 08:57
(edited on: 2011-05-31 08:59) |
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Let's see if I got it right:
- First, to make sure we're on the same pace, by Relics you mean L4 artifacts, right?
- If the above is correct then I did the following: disabled all artifacts but Charm of Mana (non-relic), and placed an ART4 (random relic) on the map.
The result of my test was that all Tombs were giving Charms of Mana, and that ART4 became Charm of Mana as well. So how were you able to get Bow of Sharpshooter in that scenario is still not reproducible by me. If instead of Random ART4 I place the Bow of Sharpshooter on the map, then the object is placed as such in that spot, but for the rest all Tombs continue to give Charms of Mana only.
In regards to your last statement "Both are not perfect solution, but some artifact must be given in the end", if we can't implement H3 logic but would be forced to reach a compromise, then I'd go for Bows of Sharpshooter any day over Grails. The Grail is not just another artifact (relic or not) that you can get today one from a Tomb, and tomorrow the second from a Crypt. The Grail is unique. We can always have a mod which allows more (and to be found at map locations), but that's another story.
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I fixed it so now if there are no artifacts of specified rarity, the other one would be picked.
Graild still can be given if all arts are disabled, but as you say editor doesn't allow such option yet. But it's better than crash in some upredictable future. |
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2011-03-04_TombGrailArtifact.7z (81,117) 2011-03-07 15:34
2011-03-04_TombGrailArtifact.jpg (71,855) 2011-03-07 15:37